Thursday, June 25, 2009
Governor Sanford? Chaper 10 on Parties and Elections
Ok -- several of you asked for this, so I am inviting your comments and I think we can tie it into the chapter on parties and elections. What do you think about Governor Sanford's behavior. What does it suggest about parties and elections? A lot of what has happened perfectly illustrates things we have been talking about in the course, in this chapter and earlier chapters. As usual, I will wait to see what you guys say and then make a few comments of my own. Bob B
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Personally I am disappointed with Governor Sanford. As someone that represents our state and holds a seat of authority his actions are completely unacceptable. Anyone who has an affair on their spouse depicts themselves as shameful and untrustworthy. Along with such actions normally comes lies to cover things up and he is also guilty of this. This only shows that you don’t ever truly know someone and also that you can’t ever fully trust someone no matter their position in society. Apologies are necessary but do not solve everything by any means. Furthermore, his actions only push potential voters as well as followers away from Governor Sanford personally as well as the Republican Party as a whole.
ReplyDeleteMelanie Ellman
I think he should resign as Governor because his behavior is immoral and represents bad judgement.It was a bad look for him when he refused to take the stimulus package and now this scandal just put the "icing on the cake" for him. What is so bad is that he has a family and grandchildren who have to live with this scandal and face America on a day to day basis. Did he really think he wouldn't get caught being gone without a trace for four days? Sanford calls the relationship a “hopelessly impossible situation of love”, it should be called a situation of lust because it was built on a lie. His behavior is also untrustworthy. He has been untrustworthly to his family and to South Carolinians as a whole. What this suggests about parties and elections is that the Democratic and Republican parties have downfalls and try to do things to "cover up" the wrongful things they have done. This wrecks their chances of getting re-elected and maybe will hopefully give America or South Carolina, for this matter, a chance to thoughtfully and 'effortly'choose who be want to fulfill the duties of the position.
ReplyDeleteNancy Mills
Governor Sanford has definitely made a hard bed that he must now lay in. The Governor faces the harsh realities of possibly losing his career and the voters losing faith in him. He is refusing to resign his seat but he could possibly be impeached. The impeachment could be on the grounds of serious misconduct. It could also be considered a serious crime if proven that he used state funds during the affair. The House of Representative and Congress could decide by a two-third vote to remove him from his seat. Extramarital affairs are viewed harshly, in the United States. The Country demands high standards of personal morality from its public officials. Some members of the Republician party are defending his actions but others do not support his irresponsible acts. He does not have unified support among party members in South Carolina. As it stands now, Sandford's nomination for the 2012 Presidential election appears somewhat slim. In recent years, many politicians have been involved in sex scandals or affairs that seem to be no big deal. A politician w/ a great deal of support or a favorable record seem to be given more opportunities to screw up. For Sanford it boils down to whether the affair was worth risking his career and loyalty of his supporters.
ReplyDeleteShelette Johnson
I personally think that what a person does on their own time is their own business, so the whole affair OUGHT be just between Sanford and his wife and kids... EXCEPT that because Sanford just disappeared, not telling anyone where he was going, causing the state to go into an uproar about its missing governor... AND due to the fact that it is now being said that Sanford has in the past used state funds to take trips to see his mistress... I think that every taxpaying citizen of this state ought to be OUTRAGED at his behavior. I agree with Nancy that he ought to resign, and I think that if he doesn't voluntarily resign, then our state legislature would do well to bring an impeachment trial against him.
ReplyDeleteRegarding party and elections, I was reading an article this morning which made the point that many of the once-leaders of the Republican party are now falling out of favor. I've thought for a while now that the Republicans would do well to try to expand their base, but I don't think that they can do that without taking a more moderate stance on some issues. The article also pointed out that various figures in the Democratic party have also been involved in scandals in recent years; however, I think that a lot of Americans (myself included) see such scandals as more distasteful when they happen in the Republican party since they are supposed to be the party of "morals" and "family values".
I meant to include a link to the article in case anyone else was interested. There are some fairly humorous quotes in there from other Republicans:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/06/25/MNFF18DCF9.DTL&type=politics
Governor Sanford definitely made a huge mistake in his week long disappearance without any notification and a huge mistake to his wife and family with his affair with Argentinean women. I one hundred and ten percent believe that what one does on their own time is business between them and others immediately affected by it, such as family and wife. I understand how people of south Carolina could be upset and distraught by the governors lack of commitment to his wife and kids which could seem to show a lack of distrust and dishonesty, but having an affair with another women does not affect Sanford political decisions. Yes it is uncomforting to think that our state governor committed adultery, but it is not really that serious especially when we are not affected directly. It is his wife and family that he has let down the most, not us. Governor Sanford has done his best to improve SC as a whole. President Clinton for instance, a great president. He pulled us out of the deficit significantly, he improved the US financially along with other things that Clinton did. Now look at that a great president (my opinion) that committed adultery and as citizens of the US we frowned upon him for one insignificant issue overlooking the greatness he had done for us. Now obviously Sanford has realized his mistake or he wouldn’t have admitted to the press of his actions. I personally believe that south Carolinians are worrying and looking into this issue far more than they should. We need to take a step back and realize what all has Sanford done for us, and then afterwards we can throw our input in.
ReplyDeleteAs for party and elections, governor Sanford was supposed to be the upcoming candidate for 2012 election. After what has happened I don’t think Sanford is going to get the support he hoped for, so voters are going to rule him out of the equation. This issue has damped the loyalty and support of his followers. The Republican Party is defending his case, as for other the act of adultery is not settling well in their eyes.
- Andrew Mewshaw
I have always been taught to believe that a marriage is a bond that should never be broken. I have been an active member in church all my life. I do not believe in adultery because I believe that it is a sin. I also believe that no one is perfect. Sanford committed adultery and it was a wrongful sin. Sanford left the government without any one in charge and now he is assuming responsibility for his actions. Although he left without notice and it is a sin I do not believe that he should be impeached. Sanford confessed that he had an affair and is willing to accept the responsibility that comes with his mistake. It is true that Sanford is in a leadership position, however he is not perfect. As long as he did not use State Funds, I do not believe it should have been brought to the public attention. Just because he committed adultery does not mean he is not a good Governor. I believe that a person should not just look at a person’s faults. However, analyze everything that the Governor has done for us the entire time he has been in our leadership position. People must have seen potential in our Governor, which is why he was voted as our leader. The world is against Sanford because they discovered one of his sins. I believe every person in this world sins and that Sanford is not the only one in a leadership position that has done something that we as Citizens would frown upon. I believe that if we realize that Sanford is human and is not perfect we will be able to look past his faults and see the things he has done for us while serving as our Governor.
ReplyDeleteNoemi Bauer
I really could care less about this so-called "scandal". I don't necessarily consider South Carolina to be my home state, and even if it were, I fail to see the connection between his infidelity and his political career (unless he did use tax money to make the trips). I know in one report, he was quoted as saying "...I spent the last five nights crying in Argentina." or something very close to that. Crying? Admitting to crying? Reason enough to kick him out of office. I don't really understand why politicians are always covering up and hiding what they've done. The worst part of what they've usually done is lie about it, which is just dumb. Come out and tell everyone, be proud of it...
ReplyDeleteI thought it was a pretty bold move of him to reject the bailout money, though. I know that was one of the headlines in the paper recently, and while the article was (as usual) extremely biased and poorly written, they failed to see how the money was largely baseless and really hurting the problem rather than fixing it. I find it terribly difficult to care about all this petty government business, and I really tuned out when one of the Senators for SC started demanding a Senate investigation into Sanford's business. He was just jockeying for attention and to try and look good during all of this.
On a side note, Sanford is kind of lucky. The death of Michael Jackson seems to be vastly overshadowing his story at the moment, and as the masses tend to have a rather unilateral focus, the spotlight, as it were, is off him.
Joshua S. Hopperton
Honestly, I don't think Sanford could have picked a better time to have such a scandal. With all the other major issues in this nation and a few deaths of major american stars, news wont have enough time to cover a scandal like this one and will get more attention from late night comedy shows. I don't think he will be removed from office although it will be near impossible to get reelected. As far as the party goes, I think the GOP will not condone his actions and the party itself will not lose any followers.
ReplyDeleteJason Hoffman
Governor Sanford's actions were definitely a shock to the state as well as the country as a whole. Without even addressing the infidelity issues, it was complete irresponsible of Sanford to leave the state as well as the country and not appointing anyone to be in charge. With the differing stories from his staff, it also seems as if they were either uninformed or trying to cover up the true location and motive of the governor, which further places doubt on the effectiveness and honesty of our state government. It's certainly not unheard of for politicians to take vacations or need a break, especially after a trying time like the fight over the federal stimulus money in Sanford's case, but it is irresponsible to leave an already struggling state without proper leadership.
ReplyDeleteWith regards to Sanford's infidelity, I understand the argument that people are human, however, when you base your entire political career on morals and condemn other politicians for their actions, it's very hypocritical and detrimental to the Republican party as a whole. When Clinton was found to be unfaithful to his wife, Sanford criticized him by saying that he needed to return to "moral legitimacy." I don't want to make this an argument about Democrats versus Republicans, but Republicans often times have based their platforms around morals and issues more related to religion whereas Democrats have not and although this does not excuse such behavior on either sides, it does mark the Republican party as quite hypocritical. Sanford made a terrible mistake not only to leave the state, but to have an affair while our state has some serious issues that have yet to be addressed. We have one of the highest unemployment rates and lowest education rankings, teachers are losing their jobs, higher education budgets are being cut left and right, and the well-being of our state is going further down the drain while our Governor takes time out to take a trip to Argentina to stimulate his own package. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's how I feel and although I understand our leaders are human and make mistakes, it's the fact that he left the state at a critical time and needed to be working hard in his last few months to better South Carolina. I believe that Sanford needs to focus now on really trying to address some of the issues that have plagued South Carolina for so many years so that hopefully his legacy will be for his leadership abilities and not his infidelity and irresponsibility.
-Morgan Lockett
I believe what Standford does with his personal life is between him and his family. Regarless of whether the majority of the public thinks it is wrong to cheat on his wife, Stanford's actions legally have nothing to do with his position as Governor. The only think his actions effect is how the public veiws him, and that indicates how the public will vote. Stanford is now seen as untrustworthy because of what he did to his wife and kids, and that position carries over to his campaign, and he is now seen as an unloyal Governor. How he runs his personal life and how he runs he runs his job could be entirely different, but human nature is to think that he would act the same in both situations. Sadly, the public also wants those in office to be 100% perfect, which is nearly impossible. It is possible, however, to judge a man's character on how he acts in his personal life, and I for one would not want one who behaves in such an unloyal manner to represent me. While I believe what he did taints his character enough to a point were I would no longer be proud to have him represent me, his personal actions make no differnce on his capacity as a Governor, only on the public opinion of him morally.
ReplyDelete-Michelle R.
I believe that what he did was completely wrong and damages his marriage and family. However, his personal life has nothing to do with how he serves our government. Everyone has faults and everyone sins. Thats what makes us human. He is in a high position and should be a role model to others. He should do that by being a good governor and leaving his personal life personal.
ReplyDeleteLeanne Josey
While this affair is terribly disappointing, I agree with Josh and Andrew that it really has no effect on his previous political career. I do think that he has been a very good governor, but I think that this scandal guarantees no chance for re-election. With South Carolina being part of the "Bible Belt", a large majority of voters will see his infidelity as unacceptable, and they will probably want him impeached. I do not see grounds for impeachment, unless he has spent government money to fund his affair.
ReplyDeleteDon't get me wrong, I definitely believe that infidelity is wrong and is a sin, but as a few other people have stated, everyone sins and just because our sins aren't publicized and televised doesn't make us any better than he is. He has been a good governor who has made a bad decision (and a guess he has made it a few times... Considering he is a Republican, and this party is known for high moral values, this issue does not represent the party in the way they wish to be represented. Adding this point, re-election is most definitely out.
Lynlee Satcher
First off, I would like to say that everyone makes mistakes. This is no way implies that I agree with what Governor Sanford has done or how it has reflected on the state of South Carolina. I am simply saying, that people all over the world decide to engage in this kind of behavior for several reasons and go unpunished for it. However, I am very disappointed that our own Governor had to be one of these people. Although there are so many people who have exhibited this type of behavior, Governor Sanford has no excuse. He knew when he was elected that he would be representing our state and with that the all of the citizens within the state. I feel that it is a good idea for him to resign because of his poor decisions. He will no longer be respected or trusted by the people of South Carolina. I feel for his family.
ReplyDeleteKatherine Edmonds
Overall before his mishap I believe Mark Sanford was not a excellent governor. He refused several times to use the stimulus package on the well-being of South Carolinians and education before having the Supreme Court rule against him. This man that I am suppose to trust to ensure my individual well-being in this state just showed me differently when he first concluded he wanted to use the stimulus package money to pay state debt. Why do that? Think about it! South Carolina was the second state listed on the unemployment ranking list and with the education listing its even worst. I believe he should have considered supplying that money to help families that were laid off due to the recession and help schools in SC. There are numerous schools in this state where students are being taught without books, flooding through the schools, and more…question is As our governor he is informed that education and unemployment is a problem, so why was that not on his mind?
ReplyDeleteNot only that! Where did he get the money for the trip to Argentina? No one knows, yeah right! I know he is as human as the next man but there many good man that can keep their penis in there pants, what makes him any different? Nothing, how can he expect for us, the people, to live by certain morals that he can't uphold himself. I'm torn by this affair, because he is human, but he live by certain morals and ask that we do too, so why doesn't he?
~Dretecia Pearson~
Some comments on your comments. Part I.
ReplyDeletePersonal immoral behavior is probably not an impeachable offense unless it involves criminal behavior (like misuse of state property, which it might here—more will come out on this as the inevitable investigations take place). Dereliction of duty is a political offense that might rise to an impeachable offense, but we will not know unless the SC House (NOT Congress!) decides it does. As is the case in the US Constitution, the SC Constitution does not give much of a definition for impeachable actions. And of course, the SC Senate must then convict if the House were to vote for articles of impeachment.
This usually turns on party politics, and in this case it is not clear which party would want him out more. If the Republicans could do it without a major fight and a costly legal battle that makes a Republican governor look bad, many of them would like to see him go. Resign would be the best course for them. Democrats, however, might like to see him stay because he will be incredibly weak for the next year and a half and the Lt. Governor, Andre Bauer, is a candidate for the office in 2010, so giving him a chance to run as an incumbent only decreases the Democratic chances in 2010. As I understand it, the Lt. Governor post would then be filled with Republican Senator Glen McConnell, one of the most powerful senators in the General Assembly. He does not want to do this because the Lt. Gov. is a weak mostly symbolic post, so he would lose a lot of power if Sanford were to leave. You can see how complicated this all gets in terms of party politics—it is not nearly as obvious as it seems! Republicans in the General Assembly are saved a bit by the fact that Sanford had alienated most of them already—he is really more of a Libertarian than a Republican, though he does not fit into the libertarian mold on moral issues (at least publically—privately he perhaps is a libertarian, at least in matters of the heart!!!)
Personally, as many of you, I am much less upset by his private behavior (I see that as between he and his family) than his cavalier attitude toward staying in touch so that he could perform the duties a governor must perform if there were a state emergency—like severe storms that can arise any summer evening.
The morality questions are very similar to those involving President Clinton back in 1998. However, Clinton never stopped performing his duties as president. He was impeached by the US House (interestingly, Sanford at the time said Clinton should have been removed, and as a member of the US House he voted for impeachment), but not convicted by the Senate.
Personal scandal cuts across party lines. We have had Democrats and Republicans involved in scandals as long as we have had Democrats and Republicans. Why? Not because the parties are corrupt, but because political leaders are people and people are tempted when they have access to money and power. That gets us back to the paradox of power we covered in the first chapter—in this case parties need some power to get government moving in one direction, but that same power has the potential to corrupt party leaders, whether they be at a state or national level. And when someone is caught, it hurts both parties in their ability to do what we need them to do in a system of divided powers and checks and balances.
Comment -- Part II.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree with Andrew that we should judge a governor for what he has done in his political life rather than personal life, Sanford fails in both. Unlike Franklin Roosevelt, who was certainly unfaithful but was clearly one of the most effective presidents in American history in terms of getting things done, Sanford has been one of the most ineffective governors in the state’s history. He failed to understand that to be effective, he must first get along with his own party members who have a majority of the state legislature in both houses. Instead he picked fights with the most prominent Republicans in the legislature. He also had to be willing to meet with people and compromise (as arguably Obama is now doing to get key bills passed). Instead, he rarely compromised or even met and negotiated with legislators. Rather, he wrote editorials and pulled publicity stunts and lectured them. In a nutshell, he failed to realize, as all of you do now (I hope!), that the most important power of a chief executive is the power to PERSUADE. You know that is important for a president. It is even more important for a SC governor, because the SC governor has comparably weaker powers on the state level than the president does on the national level.
His political career is almost without a doubt over after he leaves office in 2011. Lynlee, he was not eligible for re-election anyhow as we have a 2 term limit, just like exists for the President.
One final point. I am a little curious about what several of you meant by his being a “good governor.” I can understand if what you mean is that you agree with the kind of things he wanted to do, like reject stimulus money and defund public schools by shifting money to private schools, or even in restructuring state government to give the governor more power (on that one I fully supported his goal!). But he was so ineffective in doing any of this, as well as in generating new jobs, something governors traditionally do, that he could in no way be considered good. In fact, he has been so bad that the kind of restructuring needed to make our governor have the kind of power most other governors have was set back many years, if not decades. Hope you meant the former rather than the latter when you said good! Bob B
i am disappointed in what he has done it goes beyond his ethics as a governor. He is someone we are suppose to look at as a public figure who could do no wrong. But i do think that there is something funny to this. When all this happened on Wednesday there was an Article that came out in the Metro Spirit that stated "Sanford for President" i do think that this now will not happen. That was the same day that everyone learned what happened. I think this is a personal matter that he needs to discuss with his family first and get straightened out.
ReplyDeleteSarah Cartrett