After several months of emphasis on the economy (including the stimulus package, a budget, and forced restructuring of Chrysler and GM), President Obama is moving to press Congress to come up with a health care proposal. Based on the history of what presidents are able to accomplish when, he feels that he must get this done in his first year, or else the effort will be doomed. The major issues facing Congress are whether a public plan should be included as an alternative to existing private plans and then how to pay for the plan. The insurance industry is very much against any public plan and fiscal conservatives, including many Democrats, are against raising taxes to pay for the overall cost. Obama himself opposed McCain's proposal to allow health care benefits for employees to be treated like taxable income to help pay for expanded coverage. In case you were wondering how we ever came to have health insurance tied to employment (few other nations do this), it goes back to WWII when wages were frozen, so companies used health care insurance as a way of attracting employees. But even though Obama has said he did not want to tax benefits, many economists say that may be the only way to pay for a plan. Public opinion has in fact supported covering everyone in some way since the 1940s. But it has not been done. The last effort was Clinton's failed effort in 1994. Interestingly, almost half of Obama's staff worked for Clinton, so they think they can avoid some of Clinton's mistakes, one of which was waiting too long and trying to do it in a congressional election year. So far they have let Congress devise and consider several plans, but sometime this summer the White House will almost certainly have to get behind some plan and press for its passage.
You can find a number of editorials on this in the Washington Post, in the NY Times and elsewhere. Paul Krugman, a Nobel Prize winning economist, for example, strongly feels that Obama will eventually have to take on the insurance companies, who he feels add a lot of overhead to medical costs and are determined to undermine any plan that forces them to compete with a pubic plan (see http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/05/opinion/05krugman.html?emc=eta1).
Ok, all that was background. Because about half of the people in this class are nursing students, what happens over the next few months will not only affect us as consumers, but also as health care providers. And of course what Obama is attempting to do depends on presidential power--he is very aware that power tends to decline the longer one is in office. So here is the question. What do you think should be done? This can be broken down into several subquestions. Should Obama be pushing for a health care system that somehow covers all Americans? Should insurance companies, which claim that they are efficient providers, have to compete with a public plan? And finally, how would you pay for such a plan? Would you prefer to cut the insurance companies out altogether and go with a single provider government sponsored plan? (You should know that Obama has already rejected that idea, much to the dismay of many liberals who want a government run plan.)
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Using the same people that watched Clinton fail to correctly address this issue might be of some serious use to Obama. But I think ALL the kinks need to be worked out before we decide that this is definitely the way to go. I don't like that Obama has to go back on his word, but if it is the only way to take care of this problem maybe it is what should be done.
ReplyDeleteAlison
I personally feel that the current health care system in this country is incredibly broken, but perhaps I am biased. As a full-time independent student, I don't *HAVE* an employer that I can get health insurance through! I am fortunate that USC offers student health services and insurance at around $80 a month (IMO still a bit steep) but it doesn't even include vision or dental.
ReplyDeleteAnyway... YES, I think there should be a public health care system that covers all Americans! I group that in with other BASIC RIGHTS that all citizens of a civilized nation should have access to: clean water, food, shelter, education. We already try to provide these things, if not for everyone then at least for children. We also currently have government-funded health care programs for children and the elderly such as MediCare and MedicAid. I do feel as though the current systems in place could use some improvement though. On the one hand, I don't think that government does the best job at managing these things (evidenced by the currently broken welfare system -- another story altogether!) On the other hand, private companies tend to only care about making money, which I feel is one reason why the current health care system is so broken.
Should insurance companies have to compete with a public plan? Well, if they truly are as efficient as they claim to be, then I don't see why they should be worried! I for one do not feel that they are very efficient -- ask anyone who's had to deal with trying to get a claim processed! At least a government run system would (hopefully) serve to establish a single set of standards and a single entity that health care providers would have to deal with (versus the hundreds of insurance providers that they must deal with now.) Probably the best idea is for the government to establish an office (probably under the HHS) to oversee any sort of health insurance program (such as setting rates and standards), but to CONTRACT out the day-to-day operations to private companies. The companies would be in charge of running things efficiently, and the government would be in charge of making sure the companies really are running things efficiently. There will always be the risk of a competing private company looking for that lucrative government contract -- incentive for the company who's handling things to do the best job possible! And hey, isn't the government already a shareholder in some insurance companies? Make 'em pay off those bailouts!
Which brings me to the big question: who's going to pay for all of this? Well, if public health care is implemented, presumably it would incorporate all the current health care programs such as MediCare and MedicAid. So the budget for those programs can be put toward the new health care program. Also, the new program needs to emphasize PREVENTATIVE health since that will drastically cut costs in the long run. Another idea would be if the government awarded grants (or forgave student loans) to medical students in exchange for a committment to serve in a public health clinic for a certain number of years... sort of like the federal loan forgiveness program for teachers that currently exists.
I'm not sure if it would better to implement this as simply a government program paid for by tax revenue, or if it would be better to design it more as a government-run health insurance policy where everyone is charged a small premium. Some might say that charging a premium to everyone puts undue burden on poor families that would struggle to make the payments. In that case, I think the ideal thing to do would be to include that as part of any other sort of social welfare program designed to help the poor. In fact, it might be a good idea to require annual checkups as a requirement for receipt of ANY sort of government aid. (As I said before: PREVENTATIVE CARE!) Yes, this would require more public health care facilities and resources, but I still feel certain that emphasis on preventative care is the answer to reducing health care costs for everyone.
Sure, if a person works for a company in which healthcare is provided and taken out of their paycheck, that's great. However, in order to earn those kind of benefits there are certain circumstances such as working for a company for an alloted amount of time, being a certain age, and other factors. I do not think that healthcare should be limited to people who are able to obtain jobs such as these. I think that every American should be entitled to free healthcare somehow. Also, I do not think insurers should worry about competing with a public plan because to some people a public plan might not be as appealing to them as what they already have worked out with their employers and insurance companies. Finally, I do not think that insurance companies should be done away with completely, but I think that some type of program should be provided to people who are less fortunate and cannot afford health insurance such as people who recieve food stamps and welfare.
ReplyDeleteThe need for health reform is long overdue and deserves definite and immediate attention. It seems that the Obama administration is doing the right thing by trying to rally all parties together to come to a permanent solution that will be accessible to all americans, cost efficient but good quality. I see this as a immeasurable task but if the people involved replace greed with the need for healthcare for all, it can be done. I hope that this administration will look hard at the mistakes that were made in 1994 with Clinton’s failed attempt. I do not think that there is a good compromise thus far. The one pay, government run, and private insurance systems all have pros and cons. Government run programs are usually frowned upon by providers because of the difficulty with receiving payment for services, i.e tricare and medicaid. Private insurance offer more flexibility and covers more needs but without being backed by an employer, costs are far beyond what the typical american household can afford. I think that the final draft if passed must be structured with some type of negotiated (reasonable) scale. The focus on providing care for elderly people and/or people that are actually in NEED should be top of the draft. Too many elders, unemployed and students go without medicines and care because of this horrible system. It would be great to receive free healthcare like some other countries but I do not see that anywhers in the United States future.
ReplyDeleteI think that the idea of taxing Americans is not a horrible idea—it just depends on what and how this additional tax will affect everyone. Noone should be taxed more so than the other. The idea of taxing soft drinks as cigarettes and liquor are taxed is being tossed around. Soft drinks would be taxed 1 penny per ounce. This would absolutely be a financial gain but this is also associated with poor diets, which eventually costs more money. 90 billion dollars is paid because of health problems related to obesity, half of this amount was paid by the medicaid program. Whatever the final draft states, another focus must be preventive care. Some insurers have already created many health conscience programs which in turn will bring cost down tremendously. This money could be polled into funds to help those that are truly in need. NEED replaces GREED= a fair compromise for healthcare reform.
Shelette Johnson
I think its necessary to address this issue this early in office but President Obama may be pushing it a bit to have Congress have a bill in such a short time. I think Insurer and the pharmaceutical industry has forgotten our main focus on health care: to promote wellness and optimal health for the American people rather than gaining money for their own well being. I think Insurance Companies have nothing "drastic" to worry about, although, offering a more affordable health care plan for less unfortunate Americans could cause them to lose money. I hope this proposal will hint at Insurance Companies to cut American people some slack. I think Insurance Companies brought this upon themselves. Health care has been an issue for YEARS. Maybe Insurance Companies could have reconstructed some policies to help people and not give them the cold shoulder when if and when they can't afford it. Statistics have shown that there are 47 million Americans uninsured. That's ridiculous. I'm sure its not just the unfortunate (the poor) that's uninsured. There are college students and adults that are working but are not provided with health care benefits. I know numerous about of college students who work and are not insured and its because they can't afford it.I would not prefer that we cut it out all together because a single provider government sponsored plan will give the government TOO much power.
ReplyDeleteNancy Mills
There are a lot of efforts Obama should be focusing on and a health care proposal seems to be the most immediate issue. After just finishing my first semester in nursing school and seeing firsthand how insurance companies’ work I think there needs to be more availability to the public as a whole rather than just some supplemental expenses that may or may not be covered by Medicare and Medicaid for the elderly and low income individuals and families. I think that American’s should be under a universal health care system. However, there are some American’s that would take advantage of that. Along with a universal health care, I also believe that there should be private insurance companies for people to use if they choose. The insurance companies would be competing with the universal health care plan but the companies could offer hospitals in the private sector, treatments, and specialty services. In order to pay for a universal health care plan many options could be available. Obama could cut the military budget in half after he withdraws the troops from Iraq and use that half to help supplement the universal health care system. Another way would be to raise taxes by half a percent. Personally, I think Obama should remove the troops and use that money because then it would be a win-win situation.
ReplyDeleteMelanie Ellman
If Obama is head strong for the "Public Plan" then it should be taken seriously and excuted as soon as possible. Also for such a change in economy all possible faults should be removed and dealt with to make the Public Plan efficient. If Obama waits to long to put the plan in action then it will be harder for him later to do this because of the decrease in power in a presendtial long term career.
ReplyDeleteI believe that having a Universal healthcare system is very successful, but I don't believe that we should get rid of private insurance compaines. We need to give American choices maybe the Universal healthcare is benefical for one person/family or maybe the private health insurance is benficial to another. Leaving that option open will keep a balance in the health system. To help pay for the cost of the "public plan" i firmly agree that removing the troops from the war and cutting serious cost on warfare will contribute so much to the payment for the plan. It also will give america peace of mind for families and loved ones and for most keep our countries fighters safe.
As I said before cutting the private companies out all together is pointless. The economy needs to leave options open for citizens. As a president I feel he/she needs to cater to everyone american citizen living and providing for American.
-Andrew Mewshaw
I would not want a single provider government plan. The reason I feel this way is because I believe you would have a system where people would not receive the specialized health care that they need. However, I do believe the government should come up with a program where every U.S. Citizen is covered by some type of health care insurance. To pay for this plan the government would need to implement a flat tax for a rate of 23% tax on every item. Thus, by the government having a surplus of cash they could begin government aided insurance.
ReplyDeleteNoemi Bauer
I think that I have a unique perspective on this issue because I have worked in both nursing and hospital finance. I have seen how providers and consumers alike are affected by the issue of Health Care Reform. I watched a PBS documentary several months ago that may be accessed at :
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/
It was very informative on how 5 other nations and their health systems are operated. It was facinating to see how other countries have handled the problem of a national healthcare system and reforming the systems each had to improve cost and care. They all have pros and cons as does anything but it definately gives us vital information as to what may work and what does not.
I think that reform is definately in order. I have several concerns though. As a nurse, how is it going to change my compensation? As a consumer how will it affect my care? I do think all Americans should be covered. I do think also that private insurance companies should have to compete with a government plan. Competition is good, if it is fair. Yes, I would pay for it---I do now. Not really sure how much different it would be.....monetarily under a new system....I've only seen what other governments charge roughly and they all seem to be pallitable to me...
I would not be supportive of a single government healthcare system at this point. Reviewing Obama's proposal....it sounds good on paper. I love the ideas he has on promoting safety and reimbursement based on Best practice for quality verses quanity.....Reporting transparency on care and costs is also great....I am also in favor of preventive health care for the public for chronic illnesses....hopefully better access to care would prevent the high cost of caring for people who go untreated for years....
I think Obama should push for a health care system that covers all americans because everyone is not capable of affording health care.I would not want a single provider government sponsored plan because the people should have a choice on the specialized health care they need
ReplyDelete-Amber Jamison
First of all, I feel that government should cover all children and full time students. If we are going to provide free education to all of our nation’s kids, it just makes since to give them health care. However, a single national health care system to all Americans just doesn’t seem feasible currently. The biggest problem is funding. Taxing benefits will only punish people for being healthy and having jobs. I feel the only plausible solution is to gradually make the health care that would be provided to children and students available to the public as a competitive plan.
ReplyDeleteJason Hoffman
That is a hard question to answer because I believe that everyone should have the opportunity to get affordable health care, but at what and who's expense. Some people can't afford health care adn if the President proposes that everyone has to have health care then we as tax payers will have to end up footing the bill for those who can't afford it.
ReplyDeleteBut if it came down to that, then the insurance companies would have to do whatever they had to do to compete with whatever plans they came up with. More than likely that would mean in my opinion, that health insurance probably would go up even higher. Going with a single provider which is government sponsored would probably be just as high as the insurance companies themselves. I feel as though the President should leave the health care system alone and not try to force everyone to have health care because in the end it is only going to affect us tax paying citizens. Also, it would give the President (government) to much power over our lives which we do not need.
Elizabeth Haynes
Look at the American population now...we are as a whole so unhealthy. We are told to not to eat sweets because we were recently diagnosed with diabetes but we go home and eat the sweets or the fats and a while later we are coming back into the hospital in a diabetic coma because we did not keep our diabeties under control. Personally i dont think that we should all be on one universal health care plan. i think that health care should be a reward for good health. i do understand however that some things are heriditary and could not be controlled.
ReplyDeleteif we do however have to go to a universal plan i think that it should go like this. Lets say you start off at 90/10 with the insurance provider paying 90% and you paying 10%. But however each year you must go in for a yearly health check up, if while you are in there they find that you have high cholestorol, a little overweight and another minor problem. You pick one problem to work on and you have a year to fix it. If you dont fix it then it drops to 80/20. And you have another year to fix it. So the people who really dont care about there health will just be paying more.
i personaly would not want to be paying for the drug dealer on the street corners health insurance. So i think that this would be a better plan.
Sarah Cartrett
Clearly the health care system is broken to say the least. It needs to be fixed, but people get caught up in thinking there is one solution to the problem and the it is fixed and magicaly goes away. There is not one solution to fixing the problem, and you can never make everyone happy in a situation. I do applaud Obama, for acting quickly, as human nature is to procrastinate and talk a subject to death rather than taking action. If he can get something done, even it requires little adjustments over the next few years, it is better than no experimenting with change at all.
ReplyDeleteI do not feel we have a born right to healthcare. Nothing in life is truely free, and people must realize this. No one can give you free healthcare because the money has to come from somewhere. If the government did give you free healthcare it would only appear that way, because they would be getting the money from taxes. Thus you are paying for healthcare through your taxes and the net result is the same. Also, it is not in the buyers best interest to give one company, or the government in this case, all the power. Buyers need companies to have competition, which in turn lowers the buyers price.
-Michelle R.
I think a plan that covers "all Americans" is absurd and impossible to achieve considering the slow and problematic system we have as a government. The overwhelming amount of issues and struggles that come with providing health-care are simply too much for the government to deal with...not really a serious possibility in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteAlso, is covering all Americans really the best idea? America is so hell-bent on taking care of the weak and feeble and such...but doesn't that just perpetuate another generation of weak and feeble (and dependent) citizens? If you don't cull the herd, the harvest will be poor....the weak and sickly die off naturally for a reason.
I also think it's a horrible idea to "cut out insurance companies". They're as valid a business as any other, and to cut them out is just as wrong as cutting out, say, car dealerships. Those who can afford to pay them to gamble on themselves getting sick in the future and requiring their services, should have every right to gamble that money, and the insurance companies can take it. If not, too bad....don't play the game.
I deffinately think that Obama should be pushing a health care system that covers all americans. Having insurance companies compete with a government plan would be the best solution for all americans. Everyone would at least have some type of coverage from the government. However, if a person would like to have more than the government provides, they should be able to recieve it from an insurance company. Naturally taxes must increase to pay for something provided by the government.
ReplyDeleteLeanne Josey
I think that it would be unrealistic to try and provide free health care to every single American because of funding, and people who really do not need it or have brought the illness upon themselves would start to take advantage of it. I agree with Jason when he said children and full-time students should benefit from free health care, and I also think the elderly, disabled, and illnesses that are not self-inflicted should benefit. In order to pay for it we should raise taxes on items that contribute and promote bad health, such as cigarettes and alcohol.
ReplyDeleteMorgan Lockett
I think we should use a partial health care system, that only covers a portion of the bills. If there has to be some kind of coverage for everyone, then the only way that it can probably really be done is with compromises and cuts all around. Doctors might have to cut their fees and hospitals might make a little less, but I think it's definitely possible if everyone just pulls together!
ReplyDeleteLynlee Satcher
There should be no national health care. Socialist ideas like this and welfare are what is bringing out country to its knees. That fact that the every day working man's taxes go to people who refuse to get jobs so that they may attain income and benefits is utterly appalling to me. I am a firm believer that 99% of everything that happens to you is your fault. If you do not have a job then do not continue to have children and become a burden to society. I believe that if you want healthcare then it should be paid for some way, and not with a national tax increase or nation healthcare system. I believe that my tax dollars should go to things that will better this country like the military, the inforstructure, and the economy; not to welfare and national healthcare.
ReplyDeleteCharles "Chip" Dowdy
Given the controversy involving healthcare reform, I believe that Obama should strike while the iron is hot.
ReplyDeleteRight now Obama, has the popularity of individuals the backing of his party, and the leverage of his newly acquire position.
He should push for a healthcare system that targets all legal tax-paying American and minors, in other countries it has been a proven benefit to the morale of people and their overall happiness.
Yes insurance companies should have to compete with a public plan, even though were in a free market we still have to look out for those that may fall through the cracks, and developing a public health care system to regulate the health care industry into a system that can be had by all Americans is necessarry. Initially when they had foster care reform, the Department of Children and Families ran everything from the Federal Level but now that there are more s olid regulations on what works and what doesn't, contracts are given out to private companies to control foster care at regional and state levels.
As far as paying for a public plan, I believe that its something that should be leveraged against everyone on a sliding scale of benefit. For the most part people who more well off believe in giving back to society what better way than to give back in a way that benefits every American?
~Dretecia Pearson~
I do agree with others on several points they made. Currently I know of several employers who have implemented the coverage she is referring to-so that those who "choose" not to take care of them selves take on more of the cost of their healthcare. This is a feasable plan which employers have teamed with local facilities to encourage better health practices. The outcome will hopefully be positive.
ReplyDeleteI do, however, take care of the drug dealers, thugs, mentally ill, executives, elected officials, and very well known people.....trust me....whether it is the drug dealer on the street or the famous one.....we pay for all of them.....the famous ones....loose their money, spend frivously---they of all people who have been given health, talent and money.....throw it away, do not take care of themselves and abuse their bodies....then we pay for it....just like the drug dealers on the street corner....who are already collecting a social security check...
Then there are the ones who have been sick all of their life and may miss one day of dialysis cause they are out partying with their crack dealer....but I take care of him just as well as I do the executive that comes in for open heart surgery....No matter what, they all need care for whatever reason....sometimes it just comes down to a humanity thing at the bedside....the money part should not factor in---no one should have to worry if they have access to care...
The other thing I forgot to include was--how will we pay for this? Obama does not give a very clear indication of how he will come up with the money to pay for these changes....it appears from reading his info....in making the changes, they will pay for themselves...obviously this will not happen immediately so I am anxious to hear more about financing his plan.
The other point is that many articles in the New York Times, Washington Post and USA Today emphasized the Presidential power during the first part of his presidency and that if he failed to get some type of substantial healthcare reform passed he would be seen as a failure by the public and likely not recover...I read in one article that greater that 60% of the public expects the President to make a change in this area...The chapter we just read indicated the same...and advised that maybe we should lower our expectations....I think in the area of healthcare reform that it is a reasonable that we should lower our expectations.
I think that there were some very interesting points made, and I hope it's okay with everyone if I take a moment to respond to some things that got me thinking some more about this. Obviously this is a controversial issue and no one plan is going to please everyone. I think that the best compromise would be to have government provide access to a health insurance plan for those people who for whatever reason don't have access to, or can't afford, private health insurance. If it is run efficiently (and that's a big IF), it will force the private insurers to stay competitive and will hopefully lower costs for everyone.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Sarah's point that people who take better care of their health should get a discount. Another idea (can't remember if someone here mentioned it or if it was something I read elsewhere) would be that health care providers should be paid according to quality and efficiency of care and patient improvement. How they would track and monitor this I'm not sure.
To respond to Michelle: "I do not feel we have a born right to healthcare." I do believe that all people have the right to be healthy. Right now there are people who can't even afford to visit a doctor for yearly checkups (the most basic form of care) because they can't afford to pay for the office visit and/or can't afford to take time off of work to sit in a free public health clinic all day waiting to be seen. And so these folks put off being seen until it is too late, when they visit the ER for something that probably could have been prevented if it were caught early, and drive up costs for everyone.
To respond to Joshua: "Those who can afford to pay them to gamble on themselves getting sick in the future and requiring their services, should have every right to gamble that money, and the insurance companies can take it."
Do you have health insurance? Or are you wealthy enough to pay for your own costs out of pocket should you be unlucky enough to require an extended hospital stay?
In response to Chip: "That fact that the every day working man's taxes go to people who refuse to get jobs so that they may attain income and benefits is utterly appalling to me."
I agree 100% that current welfare programs are utterly and completely broken. Right now, there's absolutely NO incentive for people on welfare to get a job, since they actually make more on welfare without a job than they would with a minimum-wage job and no welfare check. This is one reason that I'm skeptical about government-provided health insurance: they don't exactly have a great track record as far as efficiency and oversight go.
I agree with Ashley that we ought to lower our expectations. As broken as the current healthcare (and welfare) system in this country is, I don't think we should expect a miracle overnight.
Bob's comments--part I.
ReplyDeleteLots of good thoughtful responses here! Here are a few almost random comments of my own in reaction.
Cost – Jess is absolutely right about savings from preventative care. When people do not catch things early, they end up with much more expensive emergency critical care, which too often takes place initially in the very expensive emergency rooms across the nation. That cost is passed on to everyone who pays for health insurance now. But even these savings will not pay for a comprehensive system.
No nation has truly free care—it has to be paid for in some way.
What insurance companies fear about a public plan is that companies will be tempted to drop their private plans to reduce their overhead. The way the government probably will stop this is to tax companies that do not provide private health insurance for employees.
Speaking of promoting health consciousness, the state of SC is going to add a fee ($25/month) to the employee cost share of their health insurance if they smoke. An interesting idea, but is it a slippery slope? Will they start adding fees for every pound a person is overweight? (SC Senator Greg Ryberg wanted to add a fee for anyone who fit into the obese category, which it turns out would include a lot of bodybuilders who are heavy in terms of their height!) Or who eats junk food?
Yes, many of our students are un or under-insured. When our basketball player , Meredith Legg, was diagnosed with cancer in the eye, she had just gone off her parents’ insurance because of age. She had taken out a gap policy, but it did not cover much of the costs of treatment. So now many of us are contributing to help her pay costs. She had some advantage here because of her fame as a local basketball star—but what about the average student? Should anyone be placed in this situation?
Because we are sending more troops into Afghanistan as we pull them out of Iraq, there may not be the savings that we would like to have there. But if that whole war could have been avoided, we could certainly have afforded to at least start a system—the cost of that war has exceeded a trillion so far, and estimates are that the final costs, counting long term care of wounded, will be in the range of $3 trillion. But that is money we no longer have—so the discussion is moot.
A flat sales tax of 23% would pay for a lot more than a health care system. The “Fair Tax” people advocate this kind of thing to replace all taxes. But it would have a lot of downside, even if done. For one thing, it would undermine the ability of states to have any sales tax at all, and that is the major source of revenue for states, which fund things like public education. Second, relying on a single tax creates a great of instability in revenue coming in, especially relying on a sales tax, because the sales tax changes much more quickly as the economy changes. Most tax experts say that a balanced tax system that relies on a variety of taxes is best for government.
Several of you do not want to pay taxes for health insurance for people who live foolishly. That is certainly understandable, but we pay through higher insurance premiums to cover the costs of emergency room care that hospitals pass on to those who do have insurance when these people end up there. So we pay regardless, and the emergency room care is far more expensive. Now of course one could advocate refusing all treatment for those who come in without insurance or those who have acted irresponsibly, pushing people onto the street to die. I have heard people say that about those who ride motorcycles without helmets—that they should be given no care if they are in an accident. In practice I do not think we would stand for that very long after a few horror stories.
Part II of Bob's comments on your comments:
ReplyDeleteThe idea of letting the sick and feeble simply die with no care is something that was called “social Darwinism” in the late 1800s, and it had quite a following among the well off who liked to think that their wealth was earned because they were superior and that letting the poor die was better for the human race because it would improve the genetics of those who survived. Of course this was a neat self-serving way of opposing any government programs to help the less well off, including even programs that supported public education, because after all, those who could not afford education were the genetic offspring of inferior people. So it creates a kind of slippery slope. Since then we have learned that things like intelligence are at least as much if not more environmentally influenced as genetic.
What insurance companies do today is compete in trying to get the healthiest people into their plans, because they require the least health care and produce the most profits. That is why they have all kinds of things about preexisting conditions in approving people and that is why premiums go up with age. So they provide the most insurance for those who need it the least. So a key to prevent “cherry picking” in any plan is to end using preexisting conditions as a qualifier and force companies to take all patients. That would produce a more even playing field in which they would compete in things like providing efficient services and preventative care not in finding creative ways to deny care or keeping high risk people out.
Most economists would argue that some kind of user fee or copayment should be required, or else people will waste health care treating it as something that is free, when of course it is not. The trick is preventing this fee from undermining the kinds of preventative exams and early treatment that really can save costs in the long run.
A couple of comments have been made about welfare being broken. In fact, the welfare roles have been declining, at least up to the current recession, since the Welfare Reform Act of 1996 (also known as Temporary Assistance to Needy Families--TANF), which ended AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) and placed a 5 year lifetime limit on welfare for able-bodied adults. It was passed by the Republican Congress and promoted and signed by Democrat Bill Clinton. State welfare agencies were transformed into psuedo-job placement agencies. But the stereotype remains long after reality was changed. We will look at that later.
This was a great discussion, and I am glad that all of you--except Matt :( --participated.
Bob B